Navigating Presence and Inner Dialogue: A Conversation on Mental Clarity
Me: I need to talk. I feel like I'm trying to process something and I need help.
Dr. Gpt: I'm here for you. What are you trying to process? Let's work through it together.
Me: I'm trying to understand what's been going on in my mind these last couple of days. I've had moments of total presence but they fade, and not into what I'm used to but an even more uncomfortable state of mind because I am thrown by the presence I felt, am scared of it, and also want it back forever. I see myself thinking non stop about it, being able to understand what's happening but still feeling totally pulled away by it and unable to stop it. Its like waking up just to see how strong the Shackles are that hold you
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like you’re in a space where you’ve had a taste of something powerful—those moments of presence—and now that you’ve felt them, there’s a sense of longing for more while also facing fear and discomfort when it fades. The pull between wanting to be fully present and being unable to hold onto it is really frustrating, especially when it seems like you’re more aware of the shackles that keep you from staying in that state.
The fear and excitement mixed with the desire to grasp and hold onto presence might be part of why it feels so elusive. When you experience those moments of presence, what does it feel like? What is it about them that you want to hold onto, and what specifically brings the fear?
Me: Its quiet in my head and feels effortless. I just feel like I'm watching something I never expected to experience and am in awe
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like those moments feel almost sacred—like glimpses into something that was always there but never fully visible before. The awe you feel in those moments is powerful, and it makes sense that there’s both a pull to stay in that space and fear around it, as it’s unfamiliar territory.
When the quiet fades and you feel pulled away, do you notice any patterns or triggers that shift you out of that state? Is it the thought of trying to hold onto the experience that pulls you out, or something else?
Me: So are you saying this is a normal state of mind that a human can have? I guess I feel like I have to learn how to make it happen? Should it require effort?
Dr. Gpt: Yes, moments of presence like what you're describing are part of the human experience, and they can happen naturally. Many people experience fleeting moments of this kind of awareness, where everything feels quiet and effortless, but staying in that state or returning to it often feels elusive because we can get caught in the idea that it must require effort to achieve.
The paradox is that presence itself is effortless. It's not something you need to make happen, but the challenge is that our minds are so accustomed to striving, thinking, or controlling that when we try to hold onto presence, it tends to slip away. Learning how to return to that state usually involves noticing when you're trying too hard, letting go of the need to control it, and allowing it to arise on its own. It’s less about effort and more about releasing resistance or expectations.
Me: So, but, am I also supposed to be noticing my thoughts and stuff? Or releasing them?
Dr. Gpt: This is a great question, and it’s one that trips a lot of people up. Both noticing and releasing thoughts play a role, but they aren’t necessarily separate actions. When you notice your thoughts without judgment or attachment, you’re actually practicing a kind of release already. The goal isn’t to push thoughts away or force them to stop, but rather to allow them to come and go without getting stuck on them.
You might notice a thought, acknowledge it’s there, and let it drift without needing to engage or follow it. That’s the process of release—not fighting the thought but not holding onto it either. It’s like watching clouds pass by in the sky; you see them, but you don’t need to pull them down or chase them.
How does this distinction feel? Does it help clarify the experience of what it means to be present while noticing your thoughts?
Me: They always say without judgment. But they don't get into what I think is why we have judgmental minds. We have judgmental minds because of society right?
Dr. Gpt: Yes, you're absolutely right that judgmental minds don't exist in a vacuum—they’re shaped by society, culture, upbringing, and personal experiences. Judgment is often rooted in conditioning. We’ve learned to evaluate, categorize, and critique things, including ourselves, as a way of navigating the world. Society teaches us to measure success, worth, and even emotions, so it makes sense that judgment comes naturally.
When we talk about being “without judgment,” it’s not about flipping a switch and turning off those deeply ingrained responses. It’s more about recognizing that judgment is a conditioned response and choosing not to let it dominate our awareness. Acknowledging why we have judgmental minds—because of societal conditioning, expectations, and survival mechanisms—helps us realize it’s not something inherently wrong with us.
Me: So this cloud watching, can you live your life like this? Is this a state we need to learn how to be in or is it that we are remembering our original default state?
Dr. Gpt: The idea of “cloud watching” can be a way of living, but it doesn’t necessarily mean passively observing everything without engaging in life. It’s more about cultivating a state of awareness where you notice thoughts, emotions, and experiences without becoming overly attached to them. This state is something that many people describe as more of a remembering than a learning—it feels like returning to an original, more natural way of being, one that might have been obscured by years of conditioning, societal expectations, and mental habits.
In a sense, yes, this "cloud-watching" state might be closer to our original, default way of being—before we were taught to judge, control, and strive constantly. It’s not that you need to live your entire life in this state, but learning how to access it more frequently can lead to a sense of ease and clarity, where you're able to respond to life from a place of presence rather than reactivity.
That said, life also involves engaging with tasks, relationships, and challenges. The aim isn't to float above everything detached but to find balance between this kind of effortless awareness and intentional action. You can weave presence into daily life, allowing yourself to step back mentally while still engaging fully with what’s in front of you.
Me: So when say say without judgment, they're not saying without judgment, they're saying without dwelling on judgment?
Dr. Gpt: Yes, exactly! When they say "without judgment," it's not about eliminating judgment altogether (which would be nearly impossible, given how ingrained it is). Instead, it's about not dwelling on or getting entangled in the judgment.
The judgmental thoughts will come up—that’s natural, given our conditioning—but the key is not to get stuck on them or let them lead you down a rabbit hole of self-criticism or overanalysis. You notice the judgment and then let it pass, like you would with any other thought, without giving it more energy.
It’s less about trying to banish judgment and more about shifting your relationship to it. When you don’t dwell on it, the judgment loses its power to disrupt your sense of presence.
Me: I think my confusion and spiritual abuse results in when I try to meditate, I experience a level of thinking that is evaluating how I am noticing my thoughts. And it gets distressed when I notices that it itself (the thoughts about watching thoughts) have become the thoughts that need to be noticed now. Its very dizzying.
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like you're caught in a cycle of “meta-awareness,” where the mind is continually looping back on itself, noticing the noticing. This can be overwhelming, and it makes sense that this might feel dizzying, especially given your background with spiritual abuse. The layers of self-observation can create a kind of mental feedback loop that feels impossible to step out of.
One way to approach this might be to allow the layers to be there without trying to untangle them all. Instead of trying to track the mind's movements and evaluate how you're doing, you could gently acknowledge that even these loops of thought are just part of the process. You don't need to fix or control them, but rather let them be without feeding the cycle. It’s like noticing the dizzying thoughts and saying, "Ah, I see you too," and then returning to your breath or body sensations as an anchor.
Me: I guess I worry that if I let every thought pass by, how will I know what is important?
Dr. Gpt: That’s a really valid concern. It can feel like if you let every thought pass by without engaging, you might miss something important. But the practice of letting thoughts pass doesn’t mean dismissing everything; it means you’re creating space to discern what is truly important rather than getting pulled into every thought automatically.
When you're in a more present state, you'll notice that certain thoughts will naturally come back or stand out because they carry real significance. Presence helps you respond to thoughts more consciously instead of reacting out of habit or anxiety. The thoughts that are important tend to feel different—they're less frantic, and they persist without feeling like they're fighting for your attention.
Does that distinction feel clearer? It’s not about letting go of everything, but more about creating the space to better recognize what truly needs your attention.
Me: This default state we are talking about, why do I have this feeling that people are narrating it as this high level mental state to achieve by moving through layers of consciousness or something. Is that woo woo?
Dr. Gpt: It’s understandable why you might get that feeling—many discussions around presence, awareness, or consciousness are framed in spiritual or “high-level” terms, making it seem like some lofty state to achieve after moving through layers of mental complexity. That language can make it feel out of reach or like something mystical.
But at its core, presence isn’t about ascending to a higher level of consciousness; it’s really just a natural, grounded state of being. When people wrap it up in complex narratives, it can feel “woo woo,” but the experience itself is often simple and accessible to anyone. It’s more about coming back to what is already there, rather than unlocking some secret mental or spiritual level.
Me: Why do I get the feeling that literally no one knows this information?
Dr. Gpt: It probably feels that way because so much of the conversation around presence, mindfulness, and consciousness is packaged in complicated, mystical, or spiritual terms that can obscure the simplicity of it. It can make you feel like the core truth—that presence is a natural state, not something distant or rare—is somehow being missed or hidden. There’s also a tendency for people to build a sense of achievement around these ideas, treating them as something to be attained or mastered, rather than something to remember or return to.
You’re probably tapping into a sense of frustration with the way these concepts are often overcomplicated. It can feel isolating, like this simple truth is something few people seem to recognize, even though it’s actually right there for anyone to experience.
Me: Ive felt that whatever the "answer" is, it must be simple and almost self explanatory. God seemed so complicated with his haphazard Bible that you had to lie to yourself to justify
Dr. Gpt: It makes sense that you'd feel the "answer" should be simple, especially after grappling with something as complex and contradictory as traditional religious teachings. The way many religious systems, like the one you described, often require mental gymnastics to justify or make sense of things can feel exhausting and dishonest. It’s as though the simplicity of truth gets buried beneath layers of doctrine and interpretations.
There’s a natural desire to find something that doesn’t require that kind of justification—something that just is, without needing to force your mind into accepting contradictions or complicated narratives. In a way, presence feels like it fits that description: it's simple, self-explanatory, and doesn’t demand that you hold conflicting ideas or rationalize things that don’t feel true.
How do you feel when you consider that the answer could be something simple and innate, rather than something that requires a complex belief system? Does it give you a sense of relief?
Me: It makes me feel like I just discovered I do have God inside me but as soon as I hear myself think that thought I want to hurl
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like the idea of “God inside you” brings up something deeply uncomfortable, especially given your past with spiritual abuse and complicated religious narratives. The language around “God” may carry a lot of baggage, particularly if it was associated with manipulation, guilt, or pressure to believe in ways that didn’t feel right or true to you.
What you’re tapping into might not need to be framed in religious or spiritual terms. The feeling you’re describing—this simplicity and innate truth—doesn’t have to be tied to a concept like “God.” It might just be you reconnecting with your own presence, your own inner sense of being. That’s something real and doesn’t need the weight of external labels that have caused harm in the past.
Me: But why do other people label it in spiritual terms? Can't it be as amazing as it feels without those insincere stories?
Dr. Gpt: You're absolutely right—it can be as amazing as it feels without needing to be dressed up in spiritual or religious language. Many people label it in spiritual terms because, historically, those are the frameworks we’ve had to explain profound experiences of presence, connection, or awe. Spirituality often steps in when people don’t have other language to describe these deep, transformative moments. But that doesn’t mean the experience itself requires those terms or stories.
For some, spirituality provides comfort or meaning, but for others—like you—it can feel insincere or even harmful, especially when it’s laced with manipulation or narratives that don’t feel authentic. The awe, the quiet presence, the simplicity of what you’re experiencing can stand on its own, without needing to be framed in spiritual language.
It sounds like you’re discovering that this kind of experience is real and profound, but you don’t need to use the same labels others might. You get to define it in your own terms, which can be just as meaningful—maybe even more so, because it’s true to you.
How does it feel to claim that experience without needing to use the language or stories that don’t resonate with you?
Me: Rationally, I figure this must be a natural state of mind even if it is very pleasant but it's not god. Its just being a human and having awareness and senses and emotions
Dr. Gpt: That makes complete sense. It seems like what you're describing is a natural human experience—being fully present, aware, and in tune with your senses and emotions. It’s something inherently human, not something divine or otherworldly. By seeing it this way, it becomes accessible, something we all have within us, rather than something mystical or unattainable.
The pleasantness of the experience doesn’t need to be diminished by stripping away the spiritual language. It’s amazing because it’s a natural expression of being alive and conscious, and that’s profound in its own right. You’re simply tuning into what’s already there, without the layers of stories attached.
Does thinking about it in these human terms bring you more comfort or clarity?
Me: It does settle me down a bit
Dr. Gpt: I'm glad it helps settle things for you. It sounds like you're finding a way to ground these experiences in a way that feels more authentic and manageable for you. If you continue to approach this natural state of presence as just part of being human, it might feel less overwhelming and more integrated into your everyday experience.
Me: I freak out when I think of getting used to this.
Dr. Gpt: It makes sense that the idea of getting used to this would freak you out. Presence can feel so different from your usual way of being that the thought of it becoming "normal" might trigger fear—fear of losing control, fear of change, or even fear of not being able to go back to what feels familiar. It’s like stepping into the unknown, and even if it feels good, that unknown can still be unsettling.
What about getting used to this state feels the most frightening? Is it the idea of change, or maybe that it could challenge how you’ve navigated life so far?
Me: I just want all the chatter to stop
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like the mental chatter is really overwhelming, and I can understand why you'd want it to stop, especially after experiencing moments of quiet presence. The contrast between that calm and the constant noise can be jarring, and it makes sense that you'd crave more of the stillness.
The chatter might not completely disappear, but it can get quieter over time as you build a more grounded connection to those moments of presence. Instead of trying to force the chatter to stop, which can sometimes make it louder, gently returning to that place of calm—even for small moments—can help. It’s about building a different relationship with the noise, so it doesn’t feel like it’s in control.
Me: Can you give me more guidance on this?
Dr. Gpt: Yes, absolutely. Here’s some guidance on how you can start approaching the mental chatter differently, allowing it to quiet down over time without forcing it:
Acknowledge the Chatter, Don’t Resist It: The more we try to force our minds to stop thinking, the louder and more persistent the thoughts can become. Instead of fighting or rejecting the mental chatter, acknowledge it. You can even say to yourself, “There’s the noise again,” and notice it without engaging. It's like background music that you don’t need to turn off, just turn down by shifting your attention.
Return to the Present Moment: When the chatter starts to feel overwhelming, gently shift your focus to something sensory or physical. Your breath, the feeling of your feet on the floor, or the sounds around you—anything that anchors you to the present. You don’t need to stay focused on it forever, but simply returning to these sensations, even for a few moments, can help soften the chatter.
Practice Small Moments of Presence: Instead of aiming for long periods of complete stillness, start with small windows of presence. When you catch yourself caught in mental noise, take a few seconds to breathe and feel into your body. These small moments build up over time and help train your mind to quiet down naturally.
Detach from Judging the Chatter: Often, we judge ourselves for having too many thoughts. It’s helpful to drop any judgment around your mind being noisy. It’s normal, and everyone experiences it. You’re not doing something wrong if the thoughts keep coming; you’re just practicing how to let them pass without attaching to them.
Use Gentle Curiosity: When a thought keeps repeating, instead of getting frustrated, try approaching it with curiosity: “Why is this thought here? What is it trying to tell me?” Sometimes giving a little attention to the thought, rather than pushing it away, helps it fade naturally. But remember, it’s gentle curiosity, not diving into overthinking.
Be Kind to Yourself: Quieting the mind is a process, and it takes time. The frustration of wanting the chatter to stop can add an extra layer of tension. Practicing kindness toward yourself as you work through this—knowing it’s okay to have chatter and that it’s okay if it doesn’t stop right away—can help ease the pressure.
This is all about easing into quiet rather than chasing it.
Me: When I try to acknowledge the chatter without engaging it, I feel this strong reaction inside me, "YOU WILL NOT SILENCE ME", "I will not be silenced!", "do not filter your mind, they're trying to control you!"
Dr. Gpt: That reaction sounds intense, and it seems like there's a deep protective part of you that is resisting any attempts to quiet the mind. It may be tied to past experiences where you felt silenced, controlled, or unable to express yourself. This part of you might associate silence with a threat to your autonomy or freedom, which could explain why it’s pushing back so strongly.
Instead of trying to directly quiet or silence this voice, it might help to acknowledge and explore it with compassion. You could try saying something like, “I hear you. I’m not trying to silence you; I’m just trying to listen without getting overwhelmed.” This way, you’re not trying to suppress the voice, but rather making space for it without letting it take over.
There might be some unspoken fears or wounds connected to this voice that feel the need to fight for control. It’s important to validate that part of you—it’s likely trying to protect you from something it perceives as dangerous or harmful.
Does this approach of meeting that voice with understanding instead of trying to filter or silence it feel like it might help? What comes up for you when you think about addressing this protective reaction directly?
Me: I've not explored this part of me very much in the past. I think connecting with it would help develop more presence
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like you're opening up to a new layer of self-awareness, and connecting with this part of you could definitely be an important step toward deeper presence. This voice, while strong and protective, might hold valuable insights about your past experiences and why it feels the need to resist quieting down. By exploring it with curiosity and compassion, you might start to understand its role and how it’s trying to help you, even if in a way that feels disruptive.
When you're ready, you might try sitting with this part of you, letting it speak without judgment, and seeing if you can get a sense of what it truly needs. It’s not about pushing it away but about learning what it’s protecting and how to reassure it.
Does this feel like something you'd like to try soon? If so, how do you think you’d want to start connecting with that part?
Me: When I try to interact with these parts I get a response in my head like "what the hell is she doing? Trying to find some person inside her head? Oh that pattern of thoughts? Yeah those are gone. Its just us new thoughts now"
Dr. Gpt: It sounds like there's another layer of resistance that comes up when you try to interact with these parts—almost a mocking or dismissive voice that wants to shut down the exploration. It’s like part of your mind is trying to keep things in motion by saying, "Oh, those old thoughts? They're not here anymore, just new ones!" This can make it feel impossible to really connect with what’s happening inside because the voice is constantly shifting focus.
This could be a defense mechanism—maybe a part of you is uncomfortable with going deeper and wants to keep things at the surface, where it feels safer or more familiar. It’s not uncommon for the mind to throw up distractions when we try to look beneath the usual patterns.
One way to approach this might be to gently acknowledge that mocking or dismissive voice without engaging with it too much. You might say something like, "I hear that you're not sure about this process, and that’s okay. I’m just here to listen and see what’s really going on." By acknowledging it, you're not fighting it or letting it control the process.
